SE26.life may close in 2020 [Update: We’re staying open]

Update: we’re staying open

With sadness, I intend to close SE26.life later this year.

Update: if anyone is interested in keeping it running, please contact me at chris@se26.life

The aim of SE26.life was to provide a web-based forum for Sydenham that was modern, easy-to-use, and allowed discussions to be shared across the whole web and all social networks, as opposed to having discussion confined to Facebook, Twitter or NextDoor.

I have contributed a large amount of time and money (the forums are all loss-making) to hosting community discussion.

I wanted to offer a friendly, accountable and community-moderated alternative to Sydenham Town Forum, a site which hosts gratuitous personally-targeted slander, including plenty targeting me. The owner of STF (who also acts as its anonymous “admin") banned me, then encouraged public abuse and shaming of me via his own forum and others. Similarly, when I started SE23.life, the owner of se23.com banned me and encouraged people who abused me on his own platform.

And it’s not just competing forum owners who have abused me.

One lady wrote to all local businesses on Twitter to attack my reputation, exagerrating my views after she disagreed with some political opinions I expressed on SE23.life

More recently the same lady sent me a threatening email listing many of my family members, including a photo of my mother with my 3-month-old child, and a photo of the outside of my flat with an implied threat to “pay my wife a visit” while she was on maternity leave looking after my baby son.

This lady received a warning from the police regarding this email, but that hasn’t detered her from continuing to make unprovoked attacks on me via the Sydenham Town Forum and other platforms. She managed to convince others (including the then chairman of the Forest Hill Society, and also one of the former moderators of SE23.life) that she was the victim in all of this. Apparently it’s stressful being investigated by the police when you’ve committed a crime (perhaps best not commit crimes, then?)

It’s a damning reflection on those other people that they’d be so easily manipulated, but sadly online mobs are easy to form, and are a self-perpetuating phenomenon.

I’ve also received dozens of unprovoked abusive messages from a user on Twitter after he was banned by the moderator team of SE23.life for repeated aggressive behaviour toward others, and ignoring polite nudges from the moderators.

Another ex-member of SE23.life developed an obsessive grievance with me and wrote thirteen lengthy blog posts attacking my forums and my character.

Those are the “highlights” but there’s plenty more.

To summarise, I’ve had enough.

I’m going to let these bullies win. I will shut down transition SE26.life to a new owner, if I can find one, in order to (hopefully) protect myself and my family from further abuse, as I believe the motivation of many of the abusers is to prevent my forums succeeding.

I put a lot of time into building this site and for the most part, I enjoyed running it. Many others also contributed. Thank you to those that did. Thank you also for the solidarity from those who left Sydenham Town Forum when it hosted personally-targeted attacks on me.

To those that participated in the attacks, whether the original orchestrators or the mob that cheered them on - be kinder.

You’ve damaged the mental health of a father, a brother and a son. I hope you come to understand that marginalising and attacking people online is an appalling thing to do.

I’m very sorry to you.

I will really miss this platform.

You gave everyone a voice.

Thank you

That really sucks. Sorry to hear you had to go through that, some messed up people out there. Thanks for the effort you put in, really appreciated.

The admin of Sydenham Town Forum Stuart Grove [mod: address redacted] has a lot to answer for.

That is a great shame and i am sorry you have been harassed in the manner you describe. I am amazed the other forum is still going - everyone i know has stopped using it because of the obnoxious, self- agrandising and tedious rantings of a group of regulars who go on there -at length. Is it a wing of some political party? Anyway, Take care.

I’m sorry to hear this. My husband and I are fairly new to Sydenham and have enjoyed being part of your forum. Thanks for all the work you put in.

That is awful! I am so sorry and you will be missed.

Look after yourself and your family xx

That’s a shame !

But I don’t quite follow your logic since se23.life will continue and yet that’s where the abuse has come from.

It is true that SE26.life hasn’t blossomed quite as much as se23. Partly this is the demographic I guess but also the Sydenham forum is quite good.

J

I believe the owner (who is also “admin”) of the Sydenham Town Forum is encouraging personal abuse of me because I started SE26.life, which he sees as a direct challenge to his forum. So I hope that the abuse and slander will be removed from STF if I close SE26.life.

SE23.life will continue, but not under my ownership. I’m looking to transition it to new owners who are local, and whom I trust implicitly.

The Sydenham forum is quite good??? Really? It is deserted apart from a band of loyal and contrary followers as far as i can see.Dominated by the same few voices year in year out. Never use a sentence when four screens worth of their own opinions are due an airing!

I shall be really sad to see SE26Life close. I have found it and its sister site of SE23LIfe welcoming and friendly. It’s so relaxing to be able to post on such a courteous site, which I’m sure has done a lot to project a positive image of SE26/23 way beyond our borders.

I love too that the site is open to all to view. Not a closed Facebook group or at all cliquey.

Having had bad experiences elsewhere, I in effect exhaled when I joined the Life sites. Oh the relief of finding a safe space! I do hope that there’s some way the sites can continue/combine.

I’d like to say a huge thank you to Chris and his team for all their hard work and fair moderation.

Chris, thanks for all you and your team have done here to try to provide a better forum for Sydenham. I enjoyed using this site and I’m very disappointed to hear of its shutdown.

Is this your final decision? I see you recommend SE23.life instead, and while that website is bustling, it is very Forest Hill centric and I doubt I’d feel comfortable using it for Sydenham related matters.

Having looked at Sydenham Town Forum once again, I see the dreadful thread you refer to. So many anonymous cowards with so much to say, and all of the abuse encouraged by Stuart Grove (or “admin” as he is well known to be moonlighting as). Don’t take their abuse to heart, Chris. The internet can be a vile place. Very sorry to hear you’ve also suffered threats toward your young family. Rest assured Sydenham residents are NOT represented by STF or by your abusers.

Please reconsider the shutdown. Don’t let STF be the website face of Sydenham. This is a friendly area full of good souls.

Thanks everyone for the kind words.

In response to the points you raised:

SE23.life has a long and bright future ahead of it. It’s busier now than ever, and the tiny handful of trolls that used to use it have moved elsewhere - for example, STF (which attracts personally-abusive trolls due to the behaviour / policies of its admin).

SE23.life has always had the benefit of an excellent and accountable mod team and good policy decisions. I intend to transition the site, lock, stock and barrel, to new owner(s) whom we can all trust to retain the site’s positive outlook.

If I find someone technically able to take over to SE26.life I’m willing to transfer ownership to them. This would need to be someone that I trust, like a member of the SydSoc exec, for example, or a moderator of SE23.life.

Absolutely, I know. For every cowardly abuser on STF there are many community-minded people here and on our Facebook page.

I’m baffled to see apparently reasonable people get taken in by the outright lies on STF. Do they realise that anyone able/willing to represent the other side of the story has been banned from STF by Stuart?

I am sad to shut this site down - especially as that’s what my detractors are hoping for - but honestly, running the site just doesn’t make me happy anymore, given the personal abuse I frequently get as a result of being its figurehead.

I hope that any new owner would avoid the abuse that I’ve received. The owner would probably need to be politically left-of-centre. A lot of the abuse I’ve received has been from far-left political activists (judging by their comments on social media).

Chris, sorry to hear it and thanks for putting so much energy into it . There are some very strange coves on STF - there seems to be an innate suspicion of people from that site - at times we don’t agree with what some people are trying to do for Sydenham but my default is that if they are sincerely trying to do something positive then better to support and work with than undermine, or sometimes something much worse . All the best

It’s like the Tiger King ! Lol

In what way?

Sorry to hear Chris. I’ve always enjoyed this forum. All the best to you and your family.

Thanks @jonnoprice and @NigelA. I hope to see you both on SE23.life.

If I find someone to take over SE26.life hopefully this site can continue to run.

I personally just want to take a step away from the constant abuse and slander I’m getting from elements of the Sydenham community (which still continues even now, from people who don’t know me. They’re lying and attacking because others on STF do so with impunity).

Chris
I am so sorry to hear this. The forum won’t be the same without you. It would be really good if you would reconsider.

Although as someone who experienced the public nastiness towards me of at least one one member of STF, which, coupled with the general unpleasantness of that forum, together with a seeming lack of moderation,
leading to my leaving the forum, I can’t say I blame you for your decision. I certainly wont be rejoining the STF.

I do hope SE26.life will not close

Thank you so much for all your kindness to me, particularly when I was recovering from serious illness.

I wish you and your family health and every happiness for the future.

Ann

Thanks Ann.

I will see how the forum goes while I take a step away from adding content to it.

If it’s still actively used by its members then I will try hard to find someone to take it over.

Blockquote … abuse and slander I’m getting from elements of the Sydenham community

Some of whom claim not to even live in Sydenham. At least one of them abuses Sydenham Society for interfering in Bell Green, where I gather he lives and which he claims isn’t in Sydenham. Duh? I believe Bell Green is quite a recent name for what was previously known as Sydenham Green.

But my point is Chris, STF is not representative of the Sydenham Community. Not even a small element of the Sydenham community. It appears to have a lot of members because once you’ve signed up to post there’s no mechanism for leaving, so that the “statistics” show it as having a huge number of members. But that’s not the real picture.

STF gives the impression that Sydenham is full of angry people. It isn’t. It’s just that that forum encourages the angry members and discourages the reasonable members.

Thanks Mary, your support means a lot to me. And thank you for all the brilliant posts both here and on SE23.life lately.

Thanks for all who wrote to me here and privately to express your support. I hadn’t realised just how many people value the content on this site. As with SE23.life, it turns out a lot of our visitors are not signed in, and our content reaches a wide audience on social media.

I now commit to keeping this site open so Sydenham has a web-based forum it can be proud of.

That is really good news Chris!

Chris excellent news . I echo Mary Mc’s view - the STF is as representative of Sydenham as a 3 year old copy of the Bolton Bugle or the Crawley Chronicle . I’ve posted in the past and it’s very clear there is some warped “ party line “ you need to follow or you get some nasty if dull witted backlash .
I really hope Se26 goes on and brings with it the largely positive and well intentioned STF members who seem to read but understandably steer clear of posting . That to my mind is not a forum but an update from the Central Party HQ.

Quote: “I’ve posted in the past and it’s very clear there is some warped “ party line “ you need to follow or you get some nasty if dull witted backlash”

That is not my experience of STF .

I totally agree with Nigel. There is a groupthink on STF which is worsened by the vicious bullying that goes on there, and the fact that “admin” (AKA Stuart Grove) participates in the nastiness and encourages others to do so - and also casually deletes people and their posts in unaccountable fashion.

It’s not the kind of environment that breeds healthy discussion.

But if you’re part of the small clique that regularly visits STF, and if you have the “correct” opinions, I’m sure your experience will differ from mine.

The STF model and the Dot Life model are very different. As Rachael Dunlop put it (in a post on STF):

I think for context it has to be said that she is no longer a member of se23.life so cannot take that as a current endorsement. However wouldn’t want to say anything further as her opinion is hers and mine is mine, wouldn’t want to project.

I will continue posting where I find a topic interesting. Certainly staying away from any overtly political chats, which I think may still be possible on se26 but I think overall can poison a forum quickly as then every innocuous post can be misinterpreted or twisted to find a political bias. I know some enjoy a good political debate but seen it go wrong even amongst close friends via whatsapp so in my personal opinion always should be kept for face to face.
Otherwise great place for sharing local news and supporting local improvements, businesses! Can’t wait to get back out around the whole area (when can do so safely).

Either way everyone will have their own experience on each forum and I think se26.life will be stronger for not commenting negatively on STF or vice versa.

Thanks Sarah. Agree with your points on avoiding politics and forum wars.

You’ll see very little comment about STF on this forum, outside of this topic.

You might consider suggesting to Stuart that he stops hosting a 423-post topic attacking my character and my forums -
a topic rife with newly-signed-up anon contributors, false conspiracy theories and outright lies.

Treat those comments and their posters with the contempt they deserve- ignore them.

I will.

I can forgive the likes of @pally, who participated. Even those involved in the mobbing on STF will, I think, eventually realise the toxicity of that place.

When they do, and when they’re ready to be part of a constructive, friendly community that wants to discuss Sydenham, they’re more than welcome to participate here.

If by “participated” you mean that I sometimes post on STF that is correct. If by “participated” you mean that I engaged in any of the behaviours described earlier as being what people don’t like about STF then that is NOT correct and I have NOTHING to be forgiven for!

I believe that, if he wished to, Nigel, who I have had a number of perfectly pleasant chats with over the years on STF, and who I have complimented on his amusing writing at times, would be able to confirm that I have never been unpleasant, rude or anything similar on any post on STF.

I am NOT going to engage in anything similar on SE26life either…a site that I enjoy being part of and following. I expressed my perspective on MY experience not being “following a party line” on STF. I did not expect or need to be “forgiven” for that or anything else.

I could point out one or two posts you wrote on the “attack thread” on STF. But there’s nothing to be gained by revisiting this stuff now and I don’t want any personal disagreements to taint se26.life.

In that spirit, I welcome you here and hold no grudges.

I didn’t say I didn’t post I said I didnt engage in the behaviours described on this thread! I could also start pulling up the posts but I won’t bother. Anyone can look at them anyway if they choose to. I also don’ t want to engage in personal disagreements so there we go, at least we agree about that! Moving on …

For me it was always a question of balance on STF - as Pally said we had several exchanges , some in agreement and some disagreeing , never an issue . The problem with STF is that there were enough people like Pally ie posters that could focus on issues as opposed to focusing on people . I recall a recent post on Dominic Cummings’ involvement in some Covid meeting where we happened to agree but the usual suspects went into “ here’s that awful man again “ mode and started lisping their outrage , followed by a kind of “ bugger me I’ve found myself agreeing with Nigel “ banter , culminating in one of the hormonal type regulars calling me a cweepy wacist or some such nonsense .
That kind of behaviour generates an offputting atmosphere where people avoid any subjects that might cause offence. Although for some of the worst offenders on STF even something fairly lightweight , like “ Anenome Hybrida - doesn’t it wind you up when people call them Japanese Anemones?” would lead to accusations of micro aggressions and pant wetting .

Thankyou Nigel. I assume that you meant there “weren’t” enough people like me rather than there “were” enough people like me"" personally I think one of me is quite enough!!!

Whoops -with apologies to Pally and for the avoidance of doubt - I meant to say there were not enough people like Pally . As to the correct amount, it’s somewhere between 4 and 7 . Contrast that with some of the aforemented arbiters of truth and naysayers of what is sayable and suitable, that figure drops below one . I hope that clarifies.

I’ve read you complaining on there yourself about how people are spoken to if they hold unpopular views! At one point you issued a checklist of how you felt people ought to respond appropriately.You particularly singled out the way certain men dominated, bullied and spoke to women. Incredible!

Yes when I first joined I certainly did comment on some particular unpleasantness in styles of posting that seemed unnecessary, although I can’t recall the details.

I certainly don’t recall complaining about how “certain men dominated, bullied and spoke to women” as that is so NOT my belief or approach in life and in fact is the opposite to what I think. If comments were bvlatantly sexist I might have made a comment I suppose. Without knowing the context I can’t really comment.

Overall, as I said, what was described has not been my experience on Sydenham Forum.

Not sure why you are resurrecting this now. I commented. Others commented. Nigel confirmed a view of me and our discussions on the Forum.

I am really pleased that SE26 is continuing and that Chris did not close it as it is a great resource for the community.

I think we can all agree there is some pretty reprehensible, inaccurate and personally-targeted posting on STF (especially in the appropriately-named “Asylum” category).

But luckily we have another forum here with a different ethos, which provides a venue for everyone who wants to discuss Sydenham in a friendly and constructive environment.

I’m glad you’re both here, @jayB and @Pally, and I hope we can now put any minor disagreements behind us and move on?

Hi,

Just to clarify I’m not the STF Admin. I retired from that position in 2015 well before this forum existed. Since then I have had no mod rights here, there or anywhere.

HTH
Stuart

Hi Stuart. That contradicts what I’ve heard from a long standing member of STF who attended your most recent in-person meet-up where “admin” was present.

Since you still own and host the site (the domain, forum, database etc), could you explain why you’re using it to host hundreds of posts defaming me by a number of anonymous accounts? You’re also hosting posts by the lady who received a warning from the police for sending malicious online communications that listed my family members with photos, a photo of my flat, and a threat to pay my wife and three month old baby a visit.

If you recall, it was you yourself who originally posted my home address publicly on your forum, only to later take it down when I made a formal complaint. You also banned me shortly after doxxing me, which meant I was unable to defend my name on your site from the various false statements made by members of your site - and by you yourself.

How do you think this kind of content reflects on the Sydenham community? Do you think STF is a force for good?

Will you continue to deny any responsibility for the content you’re hosting, and ask us to believe that some anonymous “admin” is responsible for it all?

Chris,

The last STF meeting I had where the current Admin was present was in 2015. A member of this forum was there. She will confirm, I’m sure, that was part of the handover process.

As I said since then I have had no mod rights, have not banned anyone and no wish to get into a forum war. If you have an issues with any current members you know how to contact the current Admin.

Four people attended your meet-up in 2018. I will spare your blushes, and I will not name them.

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The current “admin” responded rudely and disrespectfully to my polite requests to review the false and personally targeted content on your site, @StuartG, and left the content there. In fact the admin himself joined in, adding some public slurs of his own. And you did too, under your own name.

Since the site is yours, and you host it, I think it’s dishonest you continue the pretence that you have no control over it, and that some anonymous “admin” is looking after it on your behalf.

If you don’t want a forum war, why are you hosting a 400-post attack thread designed to damage my reputation, and that of my forums and their (real) moderators?

Take the attack topic down, Stuart. Make amends for the damage you’ve done to community relations.

Chris

Yes, I was at that meeting. Admin wasn’t as I’m sure they and Dom will confirm. No blushes needed.

If you think I am being dishonest then I have to ask why after a promising start between us back in 2016 you first came to that conclusion. Let’s see if we can understand and maybe fix it.

Let’s see if you’ll remove the many personal attacks you’ve made against me on STF, and the many from others that you’ve hosted.

Then let’s see if you’ll have the humility to apologise for what you did, so we can move on from this ugly chapter.

If you choose not to, that’s up to you.

As things stand, Sydenham residents have a clear choice:

• STF, if they want to be part of a “community” which makes vicious and false personal attacks on other people while disallowing those victims from defending themselves
• SE26.life, if they want to discuss Sydenham in a friendly, inclusive and constructive environment where nasty personal attacks are disallowed.

Chris,

If I have ever made any unjustified remark about you (or anybody else) I certainly do apologise.

I also recall you were very vigorous in defending yourself on STF. And gave others need to. Remember, you were taken down from STF not for what you posted but because you threatened to get it closed down (aka invoke Nominet’s DRS).

Good community relations is about bridging differences between people. I do try to do that. I’m not always successful. I’m always up to try again. But I can’t deliver what is not in my power. Unless you think it right I should demand your hoster close you down too.

But you can be confident I would never do that.

Goodnight - I’m done for the day
Stuart

I did indeed warn “admin” that I’d escalate to the Nominet if he did not remove illegal content that was hosted on STF (doxxing of my personal address).

The response I got to my request (from you, AKA “admin”) was abusive, and while you eventually removed the illegal doxxing, you left numerous other defamatory content, and then banned me from the site for daring to hold you accountable for its content. You’re lucky I didn’t raise this matter with the ICO. I don’t think they’d take kindly to a site owner deliberately doxxing members of his site.

The reason for warning about escalating to Nominet being that your company (Brainstorm Systems Limited) is listed as the registrar of the domain, and it is the responsibility of the registrar to respond to abuse notifications about dubious content hosted on that registrar’s domains. If a site doesn’t respect its responsibilities, then the registrar must step in. If the registrar doesn’t, then Nominet needs to get involved.

It’s important that companies on the internet (especially registrars) do not abuse their privileged position, and that they respond properly to complaints.

If you were sincere about this you’d take down the attacks.

I look forward to you doing so.

Update: I see from your latest post that you’re now denying that you posted my home address on STF and you are continuing your personal attacks on me. That’s a pity. Let me know when you’re ready to take responsibility for your actions. Let’s move on.

Chris, I think you should be flattered that some members of STF, albeit a very tiny minority- think you are worthy of a 400 page diatribe. What I don’t understand is why anyone who obviously dislikes you and your forums so much spends so much time and effort studying and reporting on the posts on your forums on STF. I’m sure the vast majority of members of STF are bored with this ridiculous vendetta being waged against you and. like me, just switch off and ignore these long, boring posts on STF. This seems to be evidenced by the fact that barely anyone replies.

Thanks @topofthehill. I think your post summarises the situation perfectly, and is a good place to conclude this topic.

SE26.life will remain open, and will continue to be friendly and constructive, regardless of the hostility I receive externally. I will not be bullied into closing this forum down.

If @StuartG is able to repair the culture of STF I wish him the best of luck.

If he chooses not to, then STF will merely serve to accommodate local bullies, while positive contributors come here instead.