More roads added! Local Road Closures - incl Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe

Thanks to @anon3821395 for sharing this on sister site SE23.Life I wouldn’t have known about it if you hadn’t done so.

The closure of Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe road will inevitably displace traffic onto Mayow Road. It’s bonkers and unnecessarily divisive. Isnt the world polarised and angry enough?

Traffic became much heavier on Silverdale and Bishopsthorpe when Queensthorpe was sealed off. With a no right turn onto the high street on leaving the Girton Road car park, will traffic go all the way to the Cobbs Corner roundabout to turn around? I don’t think so. This will lead to even crazier u-turn manoeuvres and frayed tempers than we see already.

Do we really want to see the posher parts of our towns turned into gated communities?

The works are scheduled to start on 15th June and and it worries me that Commonplace appears to be the only method of consultation on this. There were only 20 responses on the Bishopsthorpe closure when I looked and interestingly the final question is “Would you like to see these changes become permanent?”

Thanks for sharing, @marymck.

The council must find a better way to consult on these issues. The feedback needs to come in the form of a representative local survey, as opposed to a website like Commonplace that has no checks on identity (in fact no “one person, one vote” mechanism at all).

It’s important that the council do a proper consultation, as crude zero-sum policies like this (eg blocking roads) merely shift problems elsewhere, make journeys longer, hamper emergency service vehicles, inconvenience carers, delivery drivers and all the other motorists we rely on.

Those of us who have lived in the area long enough will remember when Silverdale was closed to traffic entering from Sydenham Road previously, It didn’t work and was reversed. I hope to be able to check back to when that was.

A no right turn out of Girton Rd (at the same time, or subsequentially - again, I need to check) caused chaos when Queensthorpe Rd was closed and the area made into a
square.(Incidentally, I agree with this, and personally am very pleased to see Angie and the flower stall brightening up this area, without the dreary utility and credit card companies agents chasing locals to sign up to their particular brands.)

If those that are in charge want to have another go, why not trial it? Use sand packed containers to decrease the width and see what happens - does this now work - or not?

For goodness sake, don’t waste our money putting in new permanent attractive planted barriers, which may not work, as happened previously? Please, Lewisham, don’t start this on Monday. Trial it first!

I welcome traffic calming but why is it the well heeled areas around here seem to get the traffic calming and the rest of us have to put up with it. I wonder about lobbying.

Interestingly, there are two almost identical posts on Commonplace, both in favour of the scheme. They are consecutive, which made them easy to spot. They both refer to Silver dale, not Silverdale.
Vote early, vote often appears to be the message from LBL. How very democratic.

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Looking at the comments on the survey today, most of those in favour of the scheme seem to be from the cycling lobby. Certainly the scheme does nothing for social distancing for pedestrians. If Bishopsthorpe is such an issue for cyclists, why are no other schemes being suggested? What about making it a no parking street other than specific areas for the disabled and carers, plus a drop off zone for service vehicles? Then there would be space for two-way cycle route in the middle of the road.

Or if that’s a no go, just restrict parking as I’ve suggested. Make the whole of the road double yellowed plus on one side only max 1 hour parking to cover carers and loading/unloading. Residents can still drop off their shopping and park on dedicated disabled bays if they’re disabled. I’m not advocating residents parking permits. Obviously that would solve nothing. Put speed cameras half way down the road and enforce.

I’m not saying this would be an ideal solution to everything the cyclists want. But if Bishopsthorpe is such a problem area that it has to be given priority over other, narrower, higher density streets, then other solutions need to be discussed that won’t just decant traffic to less high profile streets.

@CllrLiamCurran, @ChrisBestUK why this is being given such a high priority and why is it being rushed through?

Edit to say: All I’m asking for is proper consultation and a debate.

In today’s Sydenham Society enewsletter there is a message from Damien Egan, which he appears to have written on Friday 12th June. He lists some of the streets the Council are making changes to this week, including Dartmouth Road and Wells Park Road. I believe the works all start tomorrow but have no idea what they are going to do other than those, other than those @anon3821395 alerted us to earlier this week. Perhaps they’ll make it up as they go along?

There’s a link in @DamienEgan’s message to click but no further detail. The schools appear to be next on the hitlist, but when Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe gets sealed off this week there will inevitably be dispaced traffic heading along Mayow Road and Dacres Road instead. Right past the school. If they do something similar on Dartmouth Road then traffic will head up Kirkdale and present increased danger to Kelvin Grove children.

Joined up thinking seems to have headed the same way as the consultative process:

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The new planters are up on Silverdale and Bishopsthorpe now, they seem to be pretty lightweight and redundant as someone has moved one to one side and cars are still travelling through. A little ironic.

As a cyclist and car driver (and someone who lives on the road mentioned!!) I really do not see the need to improve cycling on Bishopsthorpe. I despise how people park on Silverdale and then use the overground train more! I agree with the comments that this seems to be a swift decision
Rest assured though the bare minimum money has been spent on planters that people have already moved.

It is a pity that there are no road closure signs when you turn into Silverdale from Sydenham Rd, the road closed signs are well up the road!

I have been driving through for the last few day. I now noticed me they are videoing. So obviously they will be making money out of this.

Here is a piece from the Sydenham Society newsletter from Autumn 2019, which has kindly just been forwarded to me.

This is the scheme that is being implemented on Silverdale/Bishopsthorpe. It has been described to me that the idea is to drive traffic onto the main roads (presumably roads like Mayow Road and the high street). Obviously, nothing to do with social distancing or Covid-19. As the Sydenham Society piece makes clear, this pre-dates Covid-19 and is an anti-car measure. Nothing more.

Somewhat confusingly still, Damien Egan is describing the measures as “temporary”. I still have no idea what is planned for Dartmouth Road and Kirkdale.

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Just found this link on another forum …

It shows the plans for placing water tanks on the pavements in Dartmouth Road and Wells Park Road to prevent pavement parking. Surely a bit of Enforcement both here and in othe areas would have been much better. The tanks will clutter the pavements and be as much of a hazard to pedestrians - especially the blind - as parked cars. Plus will drive the errant parkers into Longton Avenue.

That link in turn led me to this …

It looks very similar to a page where I posted comments requesting school crossings on upper Kirkdale, except those posts seem to not be on this map. There are some pretty outrageous comments on there, which I’d like to think was down to silly season and people going stir crazy with lockdown. But actually I think it’s just easy to write outrageous things, knowing that they’re likely to find someone at LBL who takes them seriously.

Interestingly, it’s all about “the cycling and walking environment”. Nothing about making life easier for the disabled and less able.

Edit to say: be careful when posting comments on the map as there appears to be no way of editing them if you make a mistake. Be extra careful when using the slider, as some parts of the site you move the slider left for “critical” and some parts “not critical”. This led me to marking a danger point as “not at all critical”, when I consider it “very critical”. No way of changing it.

For me, the Commonplace map shows that huge numbers of constructive points about social distancing for pedestrians on Sydenham Road and Bell green have been entirely ignored. Lewisham has proceeded with existing plans, which prioritise a conservation area which happens to house a number of influential people.

Why ‘consult’ if you don’t actually consider comments? Bell Green had dozens of comments against Silverdale’s two. All very dishonest, and I am dissappointed that neither councillors nor Sydsoc have anything to say about the pedestrian issues.

This is difficult for me to say, but I am extremely disappointed that the Sydenham Society is not getting involved with this discussion. It seems reluctant to do anything about to criticise Labour Council members, or consult with members as to wider opinions across Sydenham. Sydenham is not just confined to the Thorpes, and asking the Society to take an interest in pedestrian crossings on Sydenham Road wouldn’t seem unreasonable.

I agree with you about Commonplace, @jrw. The council have a peculiar focus on the Thorpes, which aren’t busy roads, and haven’t received much interest in the “consultation”

Traffic blocking measures are a local-optimising strategy that create winners and losers.

If a civic society took sides, it would get people’s backs up.

But I do think SydSoc could scrutinise the council on their consultation methods.

Even more road closures on the list today. They do keep sneaking them in under the radar. Heaven help people that happen to live, work or study on those few through routes that will be left to drive down. And heaven help the less able people stuck and isolated in their homes in the no go gated areas when these changes go through, because our Council won’t help them. Not everyone is lucky enough to be able to ride a bike or walk far.

From ForestHull on SE23.life

Indeed! As does the chair of the Sydenham Society, the chair of the Sydenham Society transport Committee, and a number of other Committee members and local Labour Party luminaries… None of whom have made public statements on these road closures. Perhaps they are happy that their needs are prioritised ahead of more deserving issues?

Now that is very interesting!

Continues here: Poll: Your opinion on the new road blocks eg Bishopsthorpe Road