Continuing the conversation from Vacant Sydenham shop has been lit for two years (74-78 Sydenham Road)
[Photo shared on SE26.life Facebook comments by David Doughty]
https://twitter.com/Sugahill_Cafe/status/1253637066774188032
How does everyone feel about this occupation?
0 voters
I can think of worse people to “occupy” the coop. And finally the lights have been turned off. How long has it been!!?
this is far better than the blocking the road stunts. if it expedites the landlord doing something with it then great
Surely this breaches lockdown rules? Puts others and the premises in risk of contamination.
They are squatters and should be treated as such.
They’re fluorescent. So my understanding is that by far and away most power (something like a week’s worth, an engineer told me) is used in switching them on, so that it’s (usually) much more eco friendly to leave them on all the time rather than switching them on and off. Of course that is assuming they would need to be switched on at some point in the week for security patrols/cameras or the like.
Also to pick on a building that is earmarked to be reopened as a gym seems a bit of an own goal.
That’s not true. It costs the same to turn them on as it does to run them for 2 seconds.
https://www.environment.admin.cam.ac.uk/resources/mythbusters-facts-top-tips/fluorescent-myth
Best use of site for years, and the lights are finally off…
Statement from Extinction Rebellion Lewisham (posted on our Facebook comments):
In my first job many years ago, I used to build fluorescent light fittings. And it takes more power to start up a light then it does when it is on! If you observe what happens when the light is first switched on, the two ends of the tube flash on. This is the capacitor in the fitting generating 480 volts from 240 volts, it doubles the voltage! then once the tube is alight then the voltage drops down to 240 volts. Although these days most light fittings have energy saving lamps!
I wonder how they “gained access” without breaking in? And how they are flushing the loos and washing their hands without using the mains services paid for by the freeholder? It sounds from their statement that they are contemptious of Covid-19 protection guidance. A mention of “social distancing” while encouraging others to break the rules.
Squatters aren’t allowed to cause damage (which switching fluorescents off and on will do), to break in or to steal utilities.
Interesting that in their statement they make no claim to be homeless and it seems pretty clear now that neither the Gym Ltd nor the freeholder gave permission for them to gain access.
Quite surprising to me that some of the people who voted in favour of the break in also voted in favour of the gym. But this makes it harder for the gym. Some cognitive dissonance here? No judgments from me. Maybe they’ve just changed their minds and no longer support the plans for the gym. I still do.
It would be interesting to know what the immediate neighbours feel (by immediate I mean the closest neighbours on Girton Road).
Hi Cormac - the road blocking stunts were definately an inconvenience, but you have to admit, they’ve bought the issue of air pollution and climate change to the fore - sometimes you have to be annoying to affect some kind of change!
Hi- the council aren’t involved and they didn’t give permission. This is a commercial building that’s been taken over to help the community. Squatting in a commercial building isn’t against the law.
Lewisham council have no involvement and haven’t given permission, plus squatting a residential building isn’t against the law. The empty building has been occupied to use as a community space for local residents and as a hub for XR to support the UK’s move towards a carbon neutral future. If the gym wants to start work on their project, they can follow the appropriate routes to get the activists out. As yet, the owners haven’t even noticed that the building’s been occupied so I don’t think the regeneration was imminent.
@Kate_Shipp
Most law abiding Sydenham citizens are on lockdown. This isn’t helping the community. This is hindering regeneration and putting lives at risk.
The “appropriate routes” to eviction are all via the Courts and the police. Both of whom have so much to concentrate on during the biggest health crisis this country has seen in my lifetime that it is unbelieveably selfish of this group to put people through this. Nevertheless, they will I am sure eventually deal with a group who clearly think they are invulnerable and somehow immune to this horrible virus and sod anyone they infect.
A “hub” for XR? According to whom? Are you a representative? Are you a squatting in this building?
I support the UK’s move to a carbon neutral future. I invest in green stocks and paid a premium for a zero-emission car and 100% renewable electricity supply.
What will XR “support” by squatting in this building, forcing the landlord to suffer a lengthy and costly eviction process, not to mention covering the utility bills for these squatters?
I’m skeptical that XR have a history of “supporting” anything. To me it seems they focus more on obstructing, damaging and disrupting other people’s lives and property.
Sorry you feel like that Chris - not sure what XR have ‘damaged’ but maybe you know something I don’t. I think the idea is to set up community workshops - book swap, clothes swaps, community food initiatives etc - probably more for people less fortunate than
yourself in the lottery of life! great that you’re up there with your green stocks and electric car- just the sort of action we can all be inspired by!
Environmentalism is a cause worth defending. We are blessed with conscientious activists that lead by example, educating and inspiring (e.g. David Attenborough).
Sadly, our cause is harmed by activists who destroy beautiful lawns, block clean electric mass transit, deface historic landmarks and spray-paint war memorials
Hi Kate if you follow the links in Chris’s post you will see some examples of the things he’s talking about.
To be fair to @Kate_Shipp, she was responding to an earlier edit of my post that didn’t include those examples.
To make things clearer, I moved that paragraph into a reply to Kate.
Ah understood. Apologies @ Kate_Shipp.
Hi Mary - I don’t think the gym people want to start working now! The building’s sitting empty for years, like I said and the owners haven’t been in contact even though the squatters have been there for a few weeks - so I don’t think they’re going to be bothering
the courts or the police during the crisis!
In fact he police have been down and taken a look and are fine about what’s happening there - had a five minute chat as a result of a call from a member of the public I pressume. Like I said previously, this isn’t against the law so maybe suggesting the squatters
are all criminals is a little unkind of you. The building has been empty and available for years so not really hindering regeneration either. Not sure why you’re so angry Mary - not a hub for XR, a hub for community support and ideas.
Yes, I’m in XR and I’ve been there, XR are just ordinary people who care about the community and the climate crisis we’re facing. We want to bring about positive change. Sorry you have such a poor opinion of us…
I’m not sure why you think you can cause such disruption and expense. Maybe you don’t want a gym there. Fine. That’s your view and you could have objected to the planning application. Maybe you did. As it happens the planning application would have been through due process by now if it weren’t for the lockdown. The Planning Committee would have decided one way or the other. That is a Planning Committee whose members were elected by Lewisham Borough residents.
Not sure how it’s disrupted anyone, but you seem to have made your mind up - which is fine. Sorry you’re so upset about it all.
Hopefully you’ll never have to face the devastating and drawn out process of evicting squatters from your own property.
The law changed in 2012, protecting residential property from squatters. Before that happened, I read harrowing accounts of innocent families having to pay upwards of £50K, and spend months/years trying to evict people who caused tens of thousands of pounds of damage to their homes.
covering utility bills for the squatters? surely they’ll be saving them money now they’ve turned the lights off…
I have to admit I’m happy to see that, finally!
Hi Chris - good examples, but I think the lawn was restored and was to bring attention to the destruction of our beautiful British countryside - did you know that the government is currently destroying the UK’s amazon - mowing down 108 ancient woodland sites and areas of special scientific interest? HS2 have permission to break the law in relation to endangered species and nesting birds. Probably you haven’t heard about it. These things unfortunately go unnoticed because the press don’t cover them unless activists pull stunts to draw attention to them. I think there were mixed opinions within XR about the DLR stunt - people can act autonomously within the movement and I’m personally ambivalent about it. Annoying for commuters who were late for work on one morning, but again, bought attention to a very real crisis that we are sleepwalking into. Same for the White Horse - it was just black cloth laid over the monument for a publicity stunt. Not permanent. As for the guy painting the memorial - agree with you, stupid thing to do, but no one gets things right all the time. we’re not anarchists, just trying to spare the planet for future generations - don’t believe everything you read in the press about us - sounds from your own actions like we (along with the amazing David Attenborough!) are actually on the same side. Just using different methods.
Very sad to know that 108 sites are being destroyed. I attended and photographed a protest in Honor Oak to try to save the historic woodland there. Sadly Southwark Council and the Mayor of London beligerently ignored the public outcry and carried on felling ancient trees regardless. All while touting their green policies (like Sadiq Khan’s promised “2 million more trees”, which never arrived).
XR didn’t draw my attention to the 108 woodland sites being destroyed. They drew my attention to the plight of the poor gardeners of Trinity whose years of work was destroyed in single day of vandalism.
I hear this a lot.
The leaders of Extinction Rebellion should publicly condemn any destructive and counter-productive actions performed under the XR banner. If they neglect to do so, the brand deserves to be tainted by those actions.
The cause of environmentalism does not deserve to be tainted by those actions.
I use my personal social media to promote and inform about the transition to renewable and zero-carbon energy and sustainable transport.
XR use their social media to:
I don’t want to be on the same side as these people. Personally, the actions of XR have made me feel less positive and engaged with the cause of environmentalism. They just made me sad, angry and disillusioned with the movement.
Hi Chris - really sorry you feel this way. XR along with DA and the Fridays for Future movement (school strikes) have bought a much needed dialogue to the crisis - like this one. David Attenborough actually endorses the school strikes, as do we. XR is a de-centralised movement and as such has no ‘leaders’, just a set of guidelines to adhere to. It went from a group of 10 or so people to a huge international movement in a few months so it’s not really possible to police who’s doing what. Like I said, really sorry you view us so negatively - really we’re just a group of people wanting to stop the inaction about this threat, and I don’t believe we’ve exagerated the science at all - you should read - it is frightening. Thanks for bothering to discuss this Chris. It’s good to hear a critics voice - and we’ll certainly listen to what you have to say. The way we’re perceived is really important if we want to make progress on this really vital issue. For the record, the book swap on the high street today was so successful they’ve run out of books!
yes - but you can’t really lay that at our door Chris!!
The gym industry is going to have a hard time keeping their existing portfolio afloat, so I would be surprised if that development goes ahead while everything is in lockdown.
The freeholder moved their business offshore to Jersey a couple of years ago, and has let the building rot, so I am not particularly bothered by their welfare. They have refused to engage with any meanwhile use, even the possibility of allowing planning application info displayed in the windows. If the occupiers keep it looking clean, it will be an upgrade of the tone of the shopping parade.
@jrw Have you asked the gym company how they feel about it and what their plans are?
On another site @John Hamilton seems to say that he notified the administrator by virtue of putting a phone number in the Coop window. But if I recall correctly, @Kate_Shipp states here that they’ve written to the administrator.
@John Hamilton also says it would be nice to know what the plans for the building are. They can be seen here:
Yes, I can see the problem with break-ins that lead to lengthy eviction sagas.
HOWEVER, in my opinion (and this is just my opinion), squatting can actually help the local neighbourhood. It puts pressure on businesses to avoid leaving property empty and unused, as so many shops in Sydenham sadly are.
It (with any luck) forces the council to deal with planning matters in a timely fashion so as to avoid empty property.
